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HomeNationalCanada's Federal Covid Mandate Debate. Doctor Q&A's. 'it's the individual's decision'

Canada’s Federal Covid Mandate Debate. Doctor Q&A’s. ‘it’s the individual’s decision’

On March 23, 2022 there was a committee meeting for Canadas COVID-19 federal mandate debate. The full video is 2 hours long and if you want to watch the full thing the link is at the bottom of this article. There was a lot of good legitimate questions raise with real debate around them. It was made clear there were many things the government had not done as first steps to preventing serious illness.

Now lets get to the discussion.

Liberal, Adam van Koeverden read a quote from the Canadian Society for Immunology about their belief in non bias, well informed non politicized scientific debate as the vaccines roll out and asked if Dr. Kalyan disagrees with the statement

Dr. Shirin Kalyan, Adjunct Professor of Medicine, University of British Columbia responded “I certainly don’t disagree with the feedback for having a good rigorous scientific discussion and I think that has been lacking”

Liberal, Adam van Koeverden was interested if she thinks Canada should try to reach 100% vaccination rate quicker “do you agree that Canadians should get fully vaccinated as soon as possible?”

“I believe it’s the individual’s decision and I believe that education and understanding of the different types of vaccines and their efficacy and their safety. They should make that decision for themselves along with their doctors.” said Dr. Kalyan

Dr. Shirin Kalyan, Adjunct Professor of Medicine, University of British Columbia who was representing herself and not any affiliated organizations opened with a compelling statement.

Dr. Kalyan submitted documents containing further data and references for the discussion of “Canadas vaccine mandates and the manner in which they have been implemented “said Dr. Kalyan adding how the policies “include the lack of recognition of infection-acquired immunity”

Collection and availability required to evaluate the efficacy and consequences of the public health policies and mandates to guide evidence-based decision-making was “sub-optimal data” said Dr. Kalyan

When we decide to lay blanket mandates on society with invasive medical intervention “it needs to meet a fairly high bar for its justification.”

“Now it is clear especially with omicron that the vaccines we have cannot really be relied upon to either prevent transmission or infection, an example the first omicron case in Israel came from a triple vaccinated doctor returning from a conference who passed it on to another triple vaccinated physician.”

“The omicron spread into many countries has been through fully vaccinated often boosted individuals and this really questions the validity of the current vaccine mandates for travel within and outside of Canada. Now data from Ontario and other jurisdictions from around the world show vaccine efficacy drops below zero after the end of the second month and those who are fully vaccinated and boosters appear to show a similar rapid timeline for waning.”

“With this evidence we should have moved quickly to lift heavy-handed measures and explain the evolving evidence this is necessary for public trust it is also good for public health to have a well-informed populace having a false sense of security has obvious negative consequences.”

During the delta wave it became clear and common knowledge “mRNA vaccines had poor durability in their ability to prevent infection and transmission.”

After what they called rare breakthrough cases were very common and widespread across the country the goal post of the vaccine mandates moved to prevention of hospitalization and serious disease.

The vaccine mandate now became a mandate for a whole different reason because it was originally for preventing transmission and infection but now shifted to protect a universal healthcare system that has been neglected for decades.

“Canadians with infection-acquired immunity should have had their superior immune protection recognized from the onset the data have been unequivocally clear that those who have had covid-19 and recovered are better protected as would be expected from infection serious disease and death compared to those who are fully vaccinated.” said Dr. Kalyan.

Adding that the USCDC confirmed “vaccinating those who have infection acquired immunity really provides them no real additional benefit thus these already immune individuals are primarily being exposed to unnecessary risks as rare as they may be and they’re also more likely to experience adverse effects following vaccination.”

Dr Kalyan went on to explain in the beginning it was being reported the chance of myocarditis after vaccination was less likely than after Covid-19 infection.

New data showed the risk of myocarditis for males under 40-years old was actually grated after vaccination than following infection

Now data show that actually for males under 40. The risk of myocarditis is in fact greater after vaccination than following infection.

“The erroneous statements previously made in respect to this risk were never publicly corrected which means that these individuals haven’t been given the opportunity to provide proper informed consent.” said Dr. Kalyan

The mandates are forcing people that are least at risk to experience serious disease to be subjected to a medical intervention for which they bear the greatest potential risk of a non-trivial nature as we move into the endemic phase of covid-19 with omicron.

The European Medicines Agency (EMA) recently also spoke directly to lack of data and sustainability of continuing down the path of multiple boosters.

Accordingly to David Jacobs, President and Diagnostic Radiologist from Ontario Association of Radiologists. Many of the people currently not vaccinated are in small groups in smaller communities.

When asked by Mike Lake what would be the most effective arguments to convince those that aren’t vaccinate to get vaccinated. We will need to reach out to them with specific programs through “religious groups and cultural groups” Said Dr. Jacobs, adding we need to get the information to them they need to make a “informed decision”.

An argument presented during Canada elections 2021 from Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, people that chose not to be vaccinate hold “unacceptable views”.

Trudeaus claim was called in to question if there is “any evidence to point to the fact that Canadians who aren’t vaccinated many of them to quote the prime minister are ‘misogynist and racist‘ is there any evidence to point in that direction?” asked Mike Lake adding a second part “is there any evidence that making that argument convinces people to get vaccinated who haven’t chosen to get vaccinated already.?”

David Jacob responded “it was a uniquely unhelpful thing that the prime minister did when he said that it was politically driven it did not help anyone in the healthcare industry it did not convince anyone to change their mind.” Adding the people currently not vaccinated are a mix bag. Some people have looked at the data and they disagree with the findings. Some people are afraid “It’s quite a wide array of people and name calling isn’t helpful”

“You’re giving me the impression that you think that that we shouldn’t have any mandates at all” Liberal Marcus Powlowski said to Dr. Kalyan and lists of number of infections and hospializations. Adding “maybe I’m misinterpreting you”.

“No, you’re you’re interpreting the data from a non-randomized placebo control trials.” said Dr. Kalyan adding “I’m not saying vaccines will not prevent hospitalization but I don’t think coercion is the best way”.

During the pandemic gyms were closed or very limited with tough restrictions and people were told to stay home at all costs. When the mandate purpose went from to prevent transmission and infection to prevent hospital numbers, we should have promoted healthy living instead and help people understand their own risk profile it would be more effective than putting out blanket mandates especially for people who already have immunity.

“we need a better risk stratification and Canada has never had a policy around which they would mandate vaccines” said Dr. Kalyan adding “informing people rather than forcing them to do something is always more effective for health care”

“You referred in your opening statement and remarks to infection-acquired immunity how clear is the data regarding its strength and durability and how does it compare to vaccine-acquired immunity?” asked NDP Don Davies

Naturally acquired immunity you get from infection is actually the “gold standard” that vaccines are trying to mimic.

“it’s been unequivocal that people have had covid and recovered are better protected from infection obviously from serious disease and hospitalization”

Dr. Jacobs agreed “to Dr. Kalyan’s point in terms of mandates. Yes omicron was highly contagious and no the vaccine didn’t do much in order in terms of preventing spread of covid” said Dr. Jacobs

There was almost no “clinical experience” with the vaccines being used outside of “outside of emergency use authorization.”

Dr. Kalyan was surprised as an immunologist to mandate vaccines for everyone without having clear data “the companies themselves are just starting to release the individual the anonymized patient level data” Dr. Kalyan said adding” know they wanted not to release that for the next 75 years but we’re starting to get some of that more clarity on the type of efficacy that really the vaccines have in a placebo-controlled trial”

“I think if we had focused on, you know protecting the most vulnerable and would have gone farther than putting blanket mandates on everyone because that has really, I think you know that actually has the potential to increase vaccine hesitancy and trust in vaccines and the public health care system in general in terms of recommendations and so I do believe that we should be providing immune protection and being transparent and looking at the evidence when we have an immune escape variant like omicron”

Extras

A judge has ordered FDA documents to be released. The documents have started to be posted on Public Health and Medical Professionals for Transparency Documents website

About the Committee meeting

Source Video
Description Meeting No. 12 HESA – Standing Committee on Health
Location Wellington Building – 315
Scheduled Wednesday, Mar 23, 202215:49 – 17:532 Hours 3 Minutes
Actual Wednesday, Mar 23, 202215:49 – 17:532 Hours 3 Minutes
Contact Information parlvusupport@parl.gc.ca Information website

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